I'm not expecting any miracles in terms of immediate fulfilment of thousands of units globally but likewise it would be nice to have a bit more information. I'm really hoping I'll have the console this month.
Does anyone else think shipping by backer number is the completely wrong approach?
Seems to me the best way to handle it is to ship by pledge amount, with those who did more to support the development of the system receiving their consoles first, not those who just happened to hear about the project earlier.
That's true nobody should be penalized just because they carefully sat down and thought through before making their purchase. The fact that you immediately reacted to the KS doesn't mean you deserve it more than me.
Having said that, I do agree that there needs to be some sort of tracker on here. The team sold us on Ouya as an open system. Now we find out just how much they mean it, and keeping the lines of communication open is critical.
Looks like after reviewing their numbers they aren't going to give us any solid numbers or anything, but they've committed to having all units shipped within 3 weeks, which I think is reasonable:
"It could take a few weeks before every OUYA makes it home."
That says a few weeks is a possibility, but it doesn't say "more than a few weeks", so if they are being honest I think we can feel that it's an official answer.
That's true. I think there will be a reasonable shit storm though if they used an obscure technical usage of "few" to trick everyone into being okay with it. I really, really want to believe they want to be honest and upfront. I just don't get why they don't give a direct answer and keep saying things like "we are making things go out in the mail at an indeterminate rate and technically some packages have shipped"
It's this sort of thing that makes kickstarted campaigns look bad. Big companies attempting to grab cash and not fulfill their obligation of information equity.
Is Ouya a big company? I was sort of under the impression they were a tiny startup and we dumped a real big obligation (and a lot of money) in their laps... :P
Even 20 people is actually quite a few, but I guess what I meant was more that companies get big money from kickstarters and then don't hold up their end. They act as though delivering the console is the full extent of a kickstarter agreement, and it's simply not.
On top of that, they've created quite a bit of uncertainty which they should work to alleviate but just keep posting more vague responses and refusing to respond to direct questions such as "how may units have shipped". How is that supposed to win confidence?
Delivering the console *IS* the full extent of a Kickstarter agreement. We gave them money, they used it to produce their creation, and they are delivering the Kickstarter pledge rewards exactly as they promised. Kickstarter tends to create a community around a project, this is true, but different companies treat the community differently. Some Kickstarters I've pledged to has kept up communication every few days, some once a month, some once every couple months. And not one of them has maintained complete transparency (which isn't promised by Kickstarter).
And why do you keep talking about "how many units have shipped" as such a minor question that every company would ever be expected to answer? Clue, NO company answers that question normally. Answering that question wouldn't actually help any of their customers, and would end up breeding discontent with the type of people who say "But if you only shipped XXX today, then if I multiply that by the number of orders, we won't get ours for 10 years!". I mean, it wouldn't help you know when you were getting your OUYA if you knew they shipped 591 the first day, because how many they shipped the first day has no relation to how many they'd get shipped on the second day (though it sounds like so far they've been shipping more each day), and you have no idea where yours will be on the list anyways, since not everyone is getting theirs in order of Kickstarter number, and some rewards are probably going to take more time than others. One Kickstarter I pledged to had another business handle shipping out Kickstarter rewards, so he didn't even know the answer from day to day.
We know the important information we need to know: OUYA's are shipping, they started shipping exactly when we were told they would, and they'll all ship this month.
As for "confidence", the fact that they've already shipped dev kits on time and managed to start shipping these on time, and the fact that some people have gotten theirs already though the emails apparently say to expect them in 5-7 business days, leaves me pretty confident.
And why do you keep talking about "how many units have shipped" as such a minor question that every company would ever be expected to answer? Clue, NO company answers that question normally.
Clearly you never backed the Kerfluffles marshmallow project on Kickstarter. When shipping time came, they did an admirable job of keeping everyone posted on what had shipped already and when the rest of it was scheduled to ship. End result: all of the uncertainty and confusion we're seeing here did not happen there.
I've been saying it for years: this is no way to do business in the Internet Age. You might be able to get away with not providing information that no one cares about, but when people start to notice that something's wrong (or even that something seems wrong) and asking pointed questions, you'd better be ready with some answers, or the rumor mill will fill in the blanks for you.
Human nature abhors a knowledge vacuum, and this is exactly the sort of thing that gives tech companies a bloody nose again and again and again.
Actually it's expected to see information on shipping on anything internet based nowadays. Kickstarter in particular requires project owners to keep backers abreast, it's even in their FAQ:
What should creators do if they're having problems completing their project?
If problems come up, creators are expected to post a project update (which is emailed to all backers) explaining the situation. Sharing the story, speed bumps and all, is crucial. Most backers support projects because they want to see something happen and they'd like to be a part of it. Creators who are honest and transparent will usually find backers to be understanding.
It's not uncommon for things to take longer than expected. Sometimes the execution of the project proves more difficult than the creator had anticipated. If a creator is making a good faith effort to complete their project and is transparent about it, backers should do their best to be patient and understanding while demanding continued accountability from the creator.
If the problems are severe enough that the creator can't fulfill their project, creators need to find a resolution. Steps could include offering refunds, detailing exactly how funds were used, and other actions to satisfy backers.
and
Is a creator legally obligated to fulfill the promises of their project?
Yes. Kickstarter's Terms of Use require creators to fulfill all rewards of their project or refund any backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill. (This is what creators see before they launch.) We crafted these terms to create a legal requirement for creators to follow through on their projects, and to give backers a recourse if they don't. We hope that backers will consider using this provision only in cases where they feel that a creator has not made a good faith effort to complete the project and fulfill.
Delivering the product really isn't the full extent of the kickstarter arrangement. They asked for money to build these consoles. We gave it to them. The understanding is that they will keep us in the loop on developments. While shipping would normally be a minor thing, based on what users are observing and reporting, the current output looks like it will be months before units are received. They should give people more information than having to figure this out for themselves, as well as explain why it is that so few units are shipping.
There is clearly an unexpected hiccup that isn't being expressed and that's disappointing, in particular because I can't schedule my plans and set expectations.
They have a moral obligation based on the good faith we put in them to be honest, and right now they are question dodging which is making me more concerned than if they told me the factory caught fire or something and set them back.
No problems are coming up that we know of - some super impatient people are trying to make people think there is one because they haven't personally received theirs yet, but the OUYA folks have been clear that they are ramping up the shipping and all devices will be shipped this month. So that first bit from Kickstarter doesn't apply here. And OUYA has so far been perfect in fulfilling all of their promises to my knowledge.
Actually per their responses it's easy to derive that they actually haven't produced all units, so literally cannot be shipping them out. That's a deceptive lie and wordplay meant to "CYA" so when people say "wait a minute!" they can just say "well we technically DID ship 5 units so we weren't lying...
That's not honest. That's not true to their obligations. They literally cannot ship the units if they haven't manufactured them yet, so it's cause for additional concern.
But at the end of the day, a little bit of transparency will go a long way. Me personally, I'm willing to put up with the run around until a full week has passed, and then I think it's worth making a bigger deal about it, since it seems there's probably a problem they aren't acknowledging. For now, I'll just keep asking the question, which I think is a well metered and tempered behavior. They are the ones refusing to inform the people who made them rich to achieve a dream.
"Start checking your mailboxes daily as these units roll out over the
next few weeks. You’ll get an email when your console ships out of our
factory. Keep in mind, it’s a rolling shipment, and consoles will be
arriving at houses every day for the next several weeks."
But why the tight lipped nature around how many units are being shipped daily, or how many so far? It doesn't make sense. We know how many were ordered, we're not asking trade secrets...
Or at least, is it fair to assume you're saying all units will be delivered within 3 weeks? If so i'm content that that's a schedule I can make plans around.
You can ignore my comment if you want, I just want to say to everyone: CHIIIIIIIILLLLLLL!!!!
They made a kickass console from scratch, in less than a year, and it works beautifully!! (Those of us who went to the launch party know that)
They already made the impossible happen, now all they have to do is ship out units, that's a piece of cake!! But it does take time.
Would you rather they spend more time emailing and counting how many units they've shipped, or would you rather they spend that time SHIPPING more units?? Hint: One of those will NOT get you your console any sooner ;)
Have a little patience, your magic cube is coming, and it's weeeeell worth the wait!! :)>-
28, Thursday, starting to ship from Boxer 8 29, Good Friday(Holiday no/reduced shipping by delivery company) 30, Saturday(Weekend, I don't recall paying expensive 2 day shipping)
31, Saturday(Weekend, nope still didn't pay 2 day shipping)
1, Easter Monday(Holiday, no or reduced shipping by delivery company)
Personally I think anyone who got an Ouya yesterday could only be a higher payed backer and anyone else I would be amazed. If we don't see a flood of Ouya by Friday, then there is a reason to start commenting.
Also as for linking Kickstarter agreement policies. There is no clear evidence that Boxer8 is in violation. It clearly states difficulties then should Boxer8 be more transparent. As they have started manufacturing and shipping on the 28. Then they are not in question. Are fulfilling, yes they are. I also don't see any mandate of fulfilment order system either.
How about picking up the thread on Friday when we can really start measuring shipping once the shipping company is really going.
They literally cannot ship the units if they haven't manufactured them yet, so it's cause for additional concern.
I don't quite understand why you're coming to this conclusion and repeating it in the post.
Why would they create all units before shipping them, when they can be shipped as they're built and packaged?
I don't see companies like Dell waiting until all computers are configured and packed before sending them to customers. When a unit or number of units is ready, they can be sent for shipping in batches.
Would you rather they spend more time emailing and counting how many units they've shipped, or would you rather they spend that time SHIPPING more units?? Hint: One of those will NOT get you your console any sooner ;)
You think the employees of Boxer8 are working the assembly line to produce, pack, and ship these? Hint: probably not.
No one is saying ship mine now, simply asking for something other than "estimated delivery: march 2013" and rumors. March is over, I expect a new estimated delivery date. And while it may not affect their bottom in the short run, reputations are hard to break once they get out and that could affect the long term success of the company. I would be extremely worried about a company that did not know how many units it could produce and ship in a set period of time prior to a product launch - under-estimating demand is one thing but they know exactly how many units they need to produce and ship. They should have learned from the Google Nexus fiasco.
They literally cannot ship the units if they haven't manufactured them yet, so it's cause for additional concern.
I don't quite understand why you're coming to this conclusion and repeating it in the post.
Why would they create all units before shipping them, when they can be shipped as they're built and packaged?
I don't see companies like Dell waiting until all computers are configured and packed before sending them to customers. When a unit or number of units is ready, they can be sent for shipping in batches.
[Edit: misunderstood the question]
I'm not disagreeing, but they definitely aren't working very hard to inform the backers of the reality of the situation. As I've said time and again, i'm less concerned with getting my unit within a certain date than I am with having realistic expectations.
What I find strange is the responses that interpret this to be impatience around RECEIVING the unit. This isn't the case though... it's all about communication, nothing more.
There is no less communication coming out of OUYA Inc than any other business or Kickstarter project I have dealt with. You talk about the "reality of the situation". The reality is that most businesses do not publish daily shipping quantities. I am very pleased with the communication I have received from OUYA Inc throughout the lifetime of this project, and it has exceeded what I would realistically expect from such a venture.
Chill. Relax. They have had a mere couple of days since they announced the shipping was commencing. With the holidays in the US last weekend and a holiday in China later this week, of course that will delay things a little bit. Julie clearly stated in her Twitter post that more detailed information will come, yet you still make unsubstantiated claims that they aren't working hard.
I have no doubt in my mind that Julie, Piers, Nick and the rest of the team are working as hard as they can to get these devices into our hands. After all, this was their ultimate goal from the very beginning. So that leaves little time for the detailed communication you crave so much. I'm not surprised really. The information you want so badly takes time to collate and prepare, and removes one or two people from the task of getting these devices out into the eager hands of the backers.
I believe this thread has reached an end. Both sides have explained their positions quite clearly. There is no more to add here.
Comments
Seems to me the best way to handle it is to ship by pledge amount, with those who did more to support the development of the system receiving their consoles first, not those who just happened to hear about the project earlier.
https://www.facebook.com/ouyas/posts/273173419483817
That says a few weeks is a possibility, but it doesn't say "more than a few weeks", so if they are being honest I think we can feel that it's an official answer.
It's this sort of thing that makes kickstarted campaigns look bad. Big companies attempting to grab cash and not fulfill their obligation of information equity.
On top of that, they've created quite a bit of uncertainty which they should work to alleviate but just keep posting more vague responses and refusing to respond to direct questions such as "how may units have shipped". How is that supposed to win confidence?
Delivering the console *IS* the full extent of a Kickstarter agreement. We gave them money, they used it to produce their creation, and they are delivering the Kickstarter pledge rewards exactly as they promised. Kickstarter tends to create a community around a project, this is true, but different companies treat the community differently. Some Kickstarters I've pledged to has kept up communication every few days, some once a month, some once every couple months. And not one of them has maintained complete transparency (which isn't promised by Kickstarter).
And why do you keep talking about "how many units have shipped" as such a minor question that every company would ever be expected to answer? Clue, NO company answers that question normally. Answering that question wouldn't actually help any of their customers, and would end up breeding discontent with the type of people who say "But if you only shipped XXX today, then if I multiply that by the number of orders, we won't get ours for 10 years!". I mean, it wouldn't help you know when you were getting your OUYA if you knew they shipped 591 the first day, because how many they shipped the first day has no relation to how many they'd get shipped on the second day (though it sounds like so far they've been shipping more each day), and you have no idea where yours will be on the list anyways, since not everyone is getting theirs in order of Kickstarter number, and some rewards are probably going to take more time than others. One Kickstarter I pledged to had another business handle shipping out Kickstarter rewards, so he didn't even know the answer from day to day.
We know the important information we need to know: OUYA's are shipping, they started shipping exactly when we were told they would, and they'll all ship this month.
As for "confidence", the fact that they've already shipped dev kits on time and managed to start shipping these on time, and the fact that some people have gotten theirs already though the emails apparently say to expect them in 5-7 business days, leaves me pretty confident.
I've been saying it for years: this is no way to do business in the Internet Age. You might be able to get away with not providing information that no one cares about, but when people start to notice that something's wrong (or even that something seems wrong) and asking pointed questions, you'd better be ready with some answers, or the rumor mill will fill in the blanks for you.
Human nature abhors a knowledge vacuum, and this is exactly the sort of thing that gives tech companies a bloody nose again and again and again.
and
Delivering the product really isn't the full extent of the kickstarter arrangement. They asked for money to build these consoles. We gave it to them. The understanding is that they will keep us in the loop on developments. While shipping would normally be a minor thing, based on what users are observing and reporting, the current output looks like it will be months before units are received. They should give people more information than having to figure this out for themselves, as well as explain why it is that so few units are shipping.
There is clearly an unexpected hiccup that isn't being expressed and that's disappointing, in particular because I can't schedule my plans and set expectations.
They have a moral obligation based on the good faith we put in them to be honest, and right now they are question dodging which is making me more concerned than if they told me the factory caught fire or something and set them back.
No problems are coming up that we know of - some super impatient people are trying to make people think there is one because they haven't personally received theirs yet, but the OUYA folks have been clear that they are ramping up the shipping and all devices will be shipped this month. So that first bit from Kickstarter doesn't apply here. And OUYA has so far been perfect in fulfilling all of their promises to my knowledge.
That's not honest. That's not true to their obligations. They literally cannot ship the units if they haven't manufactured them yet, so it's cause for additional concern.
But at the end of the day, a little bit of transparency will go a long way. Me personally, I'm willing to put up with the run around until a full week has passed, and then I think it's worth making a bigger deal about it, since it seems there's probably a problem they aren't acknowledging. For now, I'll just keep asking the question, which I think is a well metered and tempered behavior. They are the ones refusing to inform the people who made them rich to achieve a dream.
"Start checking your mailboxes daily as these units roll out over the next few weeks. You’ll get an email when your console ships out of our factory. Keep in mind, it’s a rolling shipment, and consoles will be arriving at houses every day for the next several weeks."
I made the OUYA exclusive games Cube and Creature and Hellworm!
evgiz.net
29, Good Friday(Holiday no/reduced shipping by delivery company)
30, Saturday(Weekend, I don't recall paying expensive 2 day shipping)
Personally I think anyone who got an Ouya yesterday could only be a higher payed backer and anyone else I would be amazed. If we don't see a flood of Ouya by Friday, then there is a reason to start commenting.
;)
I don't quite understand why you're coming to this conclusion and repeating it in the post.
Why would they create all units before shipping them, when they can be shipped as they're built and packaged?
I don't see companies like Dell waiting until all computers are configured and packed before sending them to customers. When a unit or number of units is ready, they can be sent for shipping in batches.
You think the employees of Boxer8 are working the assembly line to produce, pack, and ship these? Hint: probably not.
No one is saying ship mine now, simply asking for something other than "estimated delivery: march 2013" and rumors. March is over, I expect a new estimated delivery date. And while it may not affect their bottom in the short run, reputations are hard to break once they get out and that could affect the long term success of the company. I would be extremely worried about a company that did not know how many units it could produce and ship in a set period of time prior to a product launch - under-estimating demand is one thing but they know exactly how many units they need to produce and ship. They should have learned from the Google Nexus fiasco.
https://twitter.com/juhrman
More information promised in "a day or two" once they have useful information available to give us.
Interesting - no real answers but at least she is having conversations with people
the picture of the evolution of ouya is interesting - far right LE brown - not sure how I feel about it but hopefuly it is just a bad picture
I'm not disagreeing, but they definitely aren't working very hard to inform the backers of the reality of the situation. As I've said time and again, i'm less concerned with getting my unit within a certain date than I am with having realistic expectations.
What I find strange is the responses that interpret this to be impatience around RECEIVING the unit. This isn't the case though... it's all about communication, nothing more.