You've missed my point completely. Guess what, the 360 and PS3 are hardcore game machines, targeted to hardcore gamers, and they've sold millions and millions.
Core. They are core gaming machines. The so-called "hardcore" gamer got mixed in the bunch because your average guy on the street didn't understand core vs. casual.Now the whole conversation is confused and the media has started using the incorrect term. Even Pachter (who knows better) has throw in the towel and now uses the wrong term.
I'll give you that. Core is a more appropriate word. My point was the distinction between the mobile market which is mostly casual and the traditional console market which is core\traditional\hardcore players.
Felt this button should be raised instead of inset into the controller.
Disagree on that one. Biggest problem I've always had with the 360 controller by far is how easy it is to hit the X system button. I used to do fight nights with the guys playing EA's Fight Night boxing and our matchs were constantly interupted with people accidently hitting either the X button or the Pause button, like seriously every 20 seconds it would happen. I'd think a raised OUYA button would get pressed too often with the right thumb slipping off the right stick (especailly if it doesn't get grippier lol).
Mostly agree on the rest though I too don't have a problem with the bumper button angle, just that they are a little uncomfertable to reach due to the contour of the controller. I also don't mind the point they are hinged on, but it would be nice if the outer edge was contoured better so your finger doesn't touch the case when you press them down. Again, look at the 360's controller and their bumpers wrap around the top edge a little so this is a none issue there.
I've had an idea... What if the controller had swappable d-pads? The way the controller is built already has the dpad in two parts - the levers that push the contacts and the pad. Just make it easier to remove it and then supply two pads - a low, cross-shaped dpad for easy menu management and a higher, circular-shaped for action/fighting games that rely on the D-Pad
Chiming in, I'm happy that they're focusing on getting a standard controller together first. It's crucial that the Ouya start out with a great 2 stick, 2 shoulder, 2 trigger, d-pad and some face buttons experience. Nailing that is where you want to start, before you start getting more experimental and trying new stuff.
Why? Because at the Ouya's price point, they can afford to focus on making one thing great, instead of a few things mediocre. They can assume that buying an Ouya isn't a 6 year investment: people will be able to afford another Ouya every couple of years. Every year even, for a lot of people. That's a lot of room for introducing novel stuff like motion controllers and such; far more frequently than the big 3 console manufacturers even.
But what you don't get to do is retract your early mistakes: at that frequency, the Ouya will always have a gradient of relevant hardware, say from 4 year old to current, and developers will always target the mode capability. If the Ouya ships with, for instance, poor triggers, then it's half a decade before developers want to do anything interesting with them, even if they fix them in next year's iteration. I'm afraid that the touchpad already sounds like that, but I reserve judgement until I get one in hand.
tldr; Focus on the basics, launch, R&D for another year, then do something novel and awesome in v2 instead.
Chiming in, I'm happy that they're focusing on getting a standard controller together first. It's crucial that the Ouya start out with a great 2 stick, 2 shoulder, 2 trigger, d-pad and some face buttons experience. Nailing that is where you want to start, before you start getting more experimental and trying new stuff.
Why? Because at the Ouya's price point, they can afford to focus on making one thing great, instead of a few things mediocre. They can assume that buying an Ouya isn't a 6 year investment: people will be able to afford another Ouya every couple of years. Every year even, for a lot of people. That's a lot of room for introducing novel stuff like motion controllers and such; far more frequently than the big 3 console manufacturers even.
But what you don't get to do is retract your early mistakes: at that frequency, the Ouya will always have a gradient of relevant hardware, say from 4 year old to current, and developers will always target the mode capability. If the Ouya ships with, for instance, poor triggers, then it's half a decade before developers want to do anything interesting with them, even if they fix them in next year's iteration. I'm afraid that the touchpad already sounds like that, but I reserve judgement until I get one in hand.
tldr; Focus on the basics, launch, R&D for another year, then do something novel and awesome in v2 instead.
Not really. Controller revisions happened several times - NES and Saturn had their controllers redesigned to work better, the Xbox S controller did not add any functionality, but changed the button layout. None of these cases seemed like the developers were concerned that the games wouldn't work well on old controllers.
As for the touchpad, I don't know if it is currently possible, but an API call to get the absolute resolution would negate all of the problems with it, since developers will be able to code the cursor themselves using it.
Just wanted to pop in here to say that I'm definitely having trouble with the joysticks. I'm making a fast-paced action game, and my thumb is constantly slipping away. I long for my indented/rubber Xbox pad.
I mentioned this initially as well, but wanted to reiterate that this is crucial. After a lot of use and lot of play testing our game, my thumbs are getting fatigued from the extra effort it takes to keep them on the sticks (they keep slipping off during quick movements). You can overcome this if you're playing for a few minutes, but it wears on you if you use the controller a lot.
They've just announced a rubberized top, which sounds great (akin to a DualShock maybe?), though I still wish we could have the indent. I'm happy, though!
Yep, I don't care about the indent. Rubberized tops are perfect. I use a Logitech Rumblepad 2 on a regular basis, and it doesn't have any kind of indent but DOES have rubberized tops... can't say I've ever had any issue with the thumbsticks :)
You didn't remember the plot of the Doctor Who movie because there was none; Just a bunch of plot holes strung together.
Just wanted to pop in here to say that I'm definitely having trouble with the joysticks. I'm making a fast-paced action game, and my thumb is constantly slipping away. I long for my indented/rubber Xbox pad.
I mentioned this initially as well, but wanted to reiterate that this is crucial. After a lot of use and lot of play testing our game, my thumbs are getting fatigued from the extra effort it takes to keep them on the sticks (they keep slipping off during quick movements). You can overcome this if you're playing for a few minutes, but it wears on you if you use the controller a lot.
They've just announced a rubberized top, which sounds great (akin to a DualShock maybe?), though I still wish we could have the indent. I'm happy, though!
The D-Pad right now recognizes all 4 directions when you press down in the middle. I'm hoping that will be fixed in the final iteration? The xbox has a small plastic ball in the middle so it won't allow a direct press, maybe something similar would work for a solution?
is turning into a cartoon as well as a game! Check out our Facebook (and like!) :)
The mini web game is now live, play and compete for high score here: bimey.com!
I actually like that, it's like a secret button. if I detect 3 or 4 directions at once, then I know the player clicked their d-pad.
Good idea, but it needs to be made sure it's a well-documented so developers can program their games to ignore the dpad if both directions in an axis is pressed
Looking at the new prototype, I miss the old system button icon. The new one looks a little obvious imo with putting a U inside an O. I also think it's better that it is a symbol of it's own, distinctly separate from letters on the face buttons (O, U, Y, A), so there is no confusion or perceived visual relation between the two.
I have a suggestion, which I don't have much confidence it will be implemented:
Would it be possible to switch to the Wii U layout (both analogs on top, d-pad and buttons in the middle)?
I had forgotten to mention it, but the right stick obstructs access to the touchpad: It's extremely easy to accidentaly move the right stick while using the touchpad. However,the same is not true to the left side, because the d-pad is much lower:
So, would both sticks be in the superior position, that would mean a completely unobstructed touchpad, making it more useful for gameplay
Personally, I like the placement of the left stick (which will be used most often in games) directly across from the buttons (which will be used most often in games). That means the majority of the time your hands/thumbs will be perfectly comfortable. Unfortunately it does have its downsides, like twin-stick shooters would of course work better if the sticks were across from each other, and like was mentioned the touchpad issue for any game that required using the touchpad *and* buttons/right stick at the same time, but without a customizable controller you can't make the controller perfect for every genre/play style.
Yeah, not a huge game breaker if you can still have free access with one thumb (not like some people who suggested the controller should have a playstation layout, killing any possibility of the touchpad being useful for regular gameplay). Though I don't think simmetry is a major problem. Playstation users seem to be fine with games that use the left thumbstick and face buttons.
Besides, most games which use primarily the left thumbstick and the face buttons often make extensive use of the right thumbstick for camera control as well. And then there's a number of games that use the d-pad and face buttons and don't touch the analogs at all (unless you prefer it over the d-pad)
EDIT: I just had a crazy idea:
What if the d-pad were made like this: Doing away with the raised ring around the d-pad, making it as short as possible to make it easy to press any direction without a big risk of accidental diagonal press. But, like I said, this design is crap for fighting games because it requires too much force to move the diagonal and too few movement.
Notice how it has a playstation-like gap, but there is no plastic covering it, unlike the playstation controller. That is so you can add this:
Making it look and feel similar to the Neo-Geo CD d-pad, a very well-received controller among fighting game fans:
Bonus idea: the gap could be made so players can insert Lego studs on it, alowing for custom d-pads if they so desire
Also, another one on the layout: the Wii U layout would allow to easily replace both analog nubs easily, thanks to the design of the battery cover, which also allows to remove the left analog easily.
Yeah guys we're at the point of small refinements here, nothing radical is going to happen. And I'm guessing there won't be anymore refinements before the system launchs.
Just read the controller update (http://www.ouya.tv/its-all-about-control/), very happy! Though I'm on the fence about the new dpad being better. Accuracy is always nice, but this style of dpad traditionaly has worked much better for fighting games. Guess we'll see, I've only used the dpad to navigate menus so far, but playing with the controller it feels like it would be great for fighting games (good roll).
Also, I definitly prefer the new power button. The old one feels a little cheap, and the symbol on it was painted (and was also an O with a U inside of it). Now that the symbol is molded in it should be easier to feel where the button is.
They didn't mention it, but with the two tone color scheme that the retail unit has its fairly clear where the touch pad is I think.
Still hoping the bumpers get contoured into the sides of the controller a little better.
Anyone check out the new OUYA Pre Order screen on the site? Ouch, $50 bucks for the controllers? Is this really necessary guys? Did costs go way up or something? I highly encourage you guys to keep your hardware cost as low as possible and make all your money from your cut of software sales. 2 controllers shouldn't cost as much as the system, and now one of your big advantages on Green Throttle is gone. I don't think GT has the potential to trump OUYA, but the market perception that everyone already has an OUYA in their pocket, they just need controllers for it, is a tough enough marketing problem to overcome. Being able to argue that for the cost of a Green Throttle setup (2 controllers and a couple cables) you could buy a completely independet system that doesn't monoplize your cell phone, and then be able to buy 3 more controllers for another 100 bucks vs paying 200 bucks for 4 GT controllers with no system was a powerful one. The 360, Wii and PS3 have always been hampered by ultra expensive 1st party controllers, I was really happy to see OUYA's $30 price point on them. I hope you guys change your minds on that one, make you money later not up front, it will sell more systems and make you more in the long run.
Comments
I'll give you that. Core is a more appropriate word. My point was the distinction between the mobile market which is mostly casual and the traditional console market which is core\traditional\hardcore players.
Disagree on that one. Biggest problem I've always had with the 360 controller by far is how easy it is to hit the X system button. I used to do fight nights with the guys playing EA's Fight Night boxing and our matchs were constantly interupted with people accidently hitting either the X button or the Pause button, like seriously every 20 seconds it would happen. I'd think a raised OUYA button would get pressed too often with the right thumb slipping off the right stick (especailly if it doesn't get grippier lol).
Mostly agree on the rest though I too don't have a problem with the bumper button angle, just that they are a little uncomfertable to reach due to the contour of the controller. I also don't mind the point they are hinged on, but it would be nice if the outer edge was contoured better so your finger doesn't touch the case when you press them down. Again, look at the 360's controller and their bumpers wrap around the top edge a little so this is a none issue there.
As for the touchpad, I don't know if it is currently possible, but an API call to get the absolute resolution would negate all of the problems with it, since developers will be able to code the cursor themselves using it.
THANK YOU Ouya Team, good step in the right direction. Gamers will love you. Actually, they won't even notice which is what we want.
http://www.polygon.com/2013/1/24/3912278/ouya-devs-continue-to-make-controller-changes-based-on-feedback
Now... on to the triggers. :)
Check out Pig Eat Ball on Facebook!
Good idea, but it needs to be made sure it's a well-documented so developers can program their games to ignore the dpad if both directions in an axis is pressed
Would it be possible to switch to the Wii U layout (both analogs on top, d-pad and buttons in the middle)?
I had forgotten to mention it, but the right stick obstructs access to the touchpad:
It's extremely easy to accidentaly move the right stick while using the touchpad. However,the same is not true to the left side, because the d-pad is much lower:
So, would both sticks be in the superior position, that would mean a completely unobstructed touchpad, making it more useful for gameplay
Besides, most games which use primarily the left thumbstick and the face buttons often make extensive use of the right thumbstick for camera control as well. And then there's a number of games that use the d-pad and face buttons and don't touch the analogs at all (unless you prefer it over the d-pad)
EDIT: I just had a crazy idea:
What if the d-pad were made like this:
Doing away with the raised ring around the d-pad, making it as short as possible to make it easy to press any direction without a big risk of accidental diagonal press. But, like I said, this design is crap for fighting games because it requires too much force to move the diagonal and too few movement.
Notice how it has a playstation-like gap, but there is no plastic covering it, unlike the playstation controller. That is so you can add this:
Making it look and feel similar to the Neo-Geo CD d-pad, a very well-received controller among fighting game fans:
Bonus idea: the gap could be made so players can insert Lego studs on it, alowing for custom d-pads if they so desire
Also, another one on the layout: the Wii U layout would allow to easily replace both analog nubs easily, thanks to the design of the battery cover, which also allows to remove the left analog easily.
Yeah guys we're at the point of small refinements here, nothing radical is going to happen. And I'm guessing there won't be anymore refinements before the system launchs.
Just read the controller update (http://www.ouya.tv/its-all-about-control/), very happy! Though I'm on the fence about the new dpad being better. Accuracy is always nice, but this style of dpad traditionaly has worked much better for fighting games. Guess we'll see, I've only used the dpad to navigate menus so far, but playing with the controller it feels like it would be great for fighting games (good roll).
Also, I definitly prefer the new power button. The old one feels a little cheap, and the symbol on it was painted (and was also an O with a U inside of it). Now that the symbol is molded in it should be easier to feel where the button is.
They didn't mention it, but with the two tone color scheme that the retail unit has its fairly clear where the touch pad is I think.
Still hoping the bumpers get contoured into the sides of the controller a little better.
Anyone check out the new OUYA Pre Order screen on the site? Ouch, $50 bucks for the controllers? Is this really necessary guys? Did costs go way up or something? I highly encourage you guys to keep your hardware cost as low as possible and make all your money from your cut of software sales. 2 controllers shouldn't cost as much as the system, and now one of your big advantages on Green Throttle is gone. I don't think GT has the potential to trump OUYA, but the market perception that everyone already has an OUYA in their pocket, they just need controllers for it, is a tough enough marketing problem to overcome. Being able to argue that for the cost of a Green Throttle setup (2 controllers and a couple cables) you could buy a completely independet system that doesn't monoplize your cell phone, and then be able to buy 3 more controllers for another 100 bucks vs paying 200 bucks for 4 GT controllers with no system was a powerful one. The 360, Wii and PS3 have always been hampered by ultra expensive 1st party controllers, I was really happy to see OUYA's $30 price point on them. I hope you guys change your minds on that one, make you money later not up front, it will sell more systems and make you more in the long run.