Thanks for the support and kind words. Team OUYA has made us feel very at home - we're supporters for life. I have full faith that the Sandbox will be efficient and fair to everyone. Steam Greenlight has been hell for Saturday Morning RPG so I'm hopeful that Greenlight's pitfalls can be avoided.
I'd agree that some sorting in the Sandbox is necessary. From what I've heard the ranking criteria (the O-Rank) is based on player engagement stats. How long and how frequently do players play. There was also some discussion about giving more weight to developer's feedback.
So I'm hopeful that it won't just be a matter of "How many thumbs up you get" but more a real reading of if the game is enjoyable.
I'd rather see something where X developers or Y players download the game and play it for 30 minutes or more, or play it for repeated sessions was a better positive feedback than just a lot of thumbs up. Requiring that Sandbox games don't have to find a large audience, just prove that the audience they do find enjoys the game.
@Clowen - you can't judge the game but how long people play it. What if its a small, simple - but great - game where you play for 1 minute and that is it? I think the whole idea of Sandbox/Greenlight is flawed for indie games and open console.
But, that's not the only metric they'll use either. Julie mentioned getting more points for being the first game the player plays when they turn on their console (probably once per day or few hours). The fact is, we probably shouldn't know all the details because otherwise the system will be manipulated easier.
@Manesus Like Ayrik states, there's more metrics that they've mentioned. I was just pulling one out for an example. My point was to track actual engagement. If it's only a few minutes of play time, but it repeat play or the game is loaded within the first 5 minutes of booting the Ouya (showing the player booted maybe just to play that game).
There are all kinds of metrics, and the point was to move games out of sandbox based on the metrics. So that it's not about finding the audience while in Sandbox, but by proving the audience that finds it likes it.
What if someone buys a game from sandbox and then the game gets burried for some reason. Does he get a refund? Or is he stuck with never updated game? And if people avoid buying games from sandbox - in fear of that - then they won't play it either so it will get burried. It's a vicious circle. The idea of sandbox is fundamentally flawed. For developers it's mostly an additional cost - because to have a proper, quick launch they will have to pay people to digg their games out.
I think they should even take the sandbox concept further, because there's going to be a lot of junk to sift through if unpopular stuff stays in there. Maybe if an app is in the sandbox longer than a few days, it gets moved to the section of the sandbox that the cat went to the bathroom in. This quarantined corner of the box could be a place for the most neglected games where we could all go to take pity on them, and if they're fun, give them some play time.
uuh no :)
everybody knows that players would'nt go play "buried" games
you like the sandbox concept , because you got out of it, good for you
but it's not up to developpers to decide for other games popularity.
( exept for asking their friends to upvote their game , or when other devs gently give likes on their own initiative )
I suggest if a developper wants you to "take pity" on his game , he'll advise you directy.
I'm a seasoned dev and I really don't like the Ouya sandbox at all. I'm not going to enter into any detail here but suffice to say I don't like it. That is all.
Not to resurrect this old post, but I just sort of figured out what the sandbox is. I've got to say, while I understand the theory behind it, I hate it from a business point of view.
I never expected to get rich from my game(s), but I did expect a fighting chance. As it is, with my game buried in the sandbox, no one knows to go looking for it, and so they don't play it or buy it, which makes it even less likely to get out of the sandbox.
It's pretty unfair to those of us who feel like we've made decent games, but now find ourselves permanently stuck under a list at the very bottom, far away from where what few consumers there are might be shopping. It means, as long as I stay in the sandbox, I'll never attract players. And if I never attract players, I'll never get out of the sandbox.
If the whole point is to reduce the shovelware, then OUYA needs to have a *real* rating system, and then let people SORT by those ratings.
As it is, I've got to move on and get my game into other marketplaces if I expect to make any money at all from it. Pretty disappointed.
@Magnesus - Ug. Well, at least with my game in its current format, it isn't so hard for me to compile for other platforms. I've made more on Google Play with a *dieting* app in the last few days than I have on OUYA, with a game I spent weeks working on.
I just feel like there's a lot about the OUYA which, if slightly tweaked, could drive sales. I mean, I understand the fear of distancing users with shovelware. But they've already got curated lists anyway. Why not let the category lists just have everything approved, but make it sortable. Seems like a reasonable compromise.
Oh well. I think like a lot of small devs, I'm just feeling bummed out by my initial experiences on the platform. If the OUYA survives another year, maybe by then the platform will be polished enough to make it easier to survive on it w/o a AAA game or a budget of thousands of dollars.
Not to be a Complainy Pete, but I can't help but think that, even if OUYA folds, the team still has millions of dollars from the kickstarter campaign they get to walk away with. I wonder if they are really all that motivated to get this system into a money-making engine, or if they just wanted to make a "revolutionary" system for philosophical reasons. I'm positive they want to have a great system for players, which is a great goal-- but w/o it being more friendly to small indie devs, and not friendly enough to big devs, I just don't know where it's going.
*sigh*. Anyway, I'll go hang myself now (not really-- got to go to Target ;)
Richard PS: Sorry for the rant. Free market's a B.
Well, my The Lost Heroes made more in a few days on Google Play than on OUYA in two months. :) But I still support OUYA and will release more for it because it's more fun playing games on a TV than on a phone (although I quite like playing on tablet). :) And making a game for OUYA might be an investment for the future when such consoles become more popular.
@Magnesus, I do agree that playing games on TV is just more fun. I miss gamepads! That's what attracted me to the OUYA in the first place. And like you, I am hoping that other microconsoles catch on (Gamestick, Google is rumored to be working on one, and Apple just added gamepad support to its SDK for unknown reasons...).
I think my strategy will be to put out games on Google Play *first*, and OUYA second, if I can do it in less than a couple hours. Otherwise, it just isn't worth my time. Not unless they change their UI to make it easier for small devs to get noticed. And from now on, all of my Google Play games will have gamepad support, to make it easier for hypothetical future systems.
Comments
Thanks for the support and kind words. Team OUYA has made us feel very at home - we're supporters for life. I have full faith that the Sandbox will be efficient and fair to everyone. Steam Greenlight has been hell for Saturday Morning RPG so I'm hopeful that Greenlight's pitfalls can be avoided.
> Anti piracy measures are needed and it doesn't haves to interfer with the concept of open console
I never expected to get rich from my game(s), but I did expect a fighting chance. As it is, with my game buried in the sandbox, no one knows to go looking for it, and so they don't play it or buy it, which makes it even less likely to get out of the sandbox.
It's pretty unfair to those of us who feel like we've made decent games, but now find ourselves permanently stuck under a list at the very bottom, far away from where what few consumers there are might be shopping. It means, as long as I stay in the sandbox, I'll never attract players. And if I never attract players, I'll never get out of the sandbox.
If the whole point is to reduce the shovelware, then OUYA needs to have a *real* rating system, and then let people SORT by those ratings.
As it is, I've got to move on and get my game into other marketplaces if I expect to make any money at all from it. Pretty disappointed.
Richard
Currently available game: Alex the Alien
I just feel like there's a lot about the OUYA which, if slightly tweaked, could drive sales. I mean, I understand the fear of distancing users with shovelware. But they've already got curated lists anyway. Why not let the category lists just have everything approved, but make it sortable. Seems like a reasonable compromise.
Oh well. I think like a lot of small devs, I'm just feeling bummed out by my initial experiences on the platform. If the OUYA survives another year, maybe by then the platform will be polished enough to make it easier to survive on it w/o a AAA game or a budget of thousands of dollars.
Not to be a Complainy Pete, but I can't help but think that, even if OUYA folds, the team still has millions of dollars from the kickstarter campaign they get to walk away with. I wonder if they are really all that motivated to get this system into a money-making engine, or if they just wanted to make a "revolutionary" system for philosophical reasons. I'm positive they want to have a great system for players, which is a great goal-- but w/o it being more friendly to small indie devs, and not friendly enough to big devs, I just don't know where it's going.
*sigh*. Anyway, I'll go hang myself now (not really-- got to go to Target ;)
Richard
PS: Sorry for the rant. Free market's a B.
Currently available game: Alex the Alien
I think my strategy will be to put out games on Google Play *first*, and OUYA second, if I can do it in less than a couple hours. Otherwise, it just isn't worth my time. Not unless they change their UI to make it easier for small devs to get noticed. And from now on, all of my Google Play games will have gamepad support, to make it easier for hypothetical future systems.
Richard
Currently available game: Alex the Alien